00:00:00: You are listening to the Effective Statician Podcast.

00:00:04: The weekly podcast with Alexander Schacht and Benjamin Piske designed help you reach a potential, lead great science & serve patients while having a great work-life balance!

00:00:22: In addition our premium courses on the Effectives Staticians Academy.

00:00:28: we

00:00:28: also have lots

00:00:30: of

00:00:31: free resources for you across all kind of different topics within that academy.

00:00:38: Head over to theeffectivestatistician.com and find The Academy, And much more For You To Become An Effective Statistician.

00:00:49: I'm producing this podcast in association with PSI A community dedicated to leading and promoting user statistics within the health industry for the benefit of patients.

00:01:01: Join PSI today to further develop your statistical capabilities with access to the ever-growing video on demand content library, free registrations for all PSI webinars and much more.

00:01:13: Head over to the PSI website at psiweb.org To learn more about PSI activities.

00:01:20: in Become a PSI Number Two page.

00:01:30: Hello!

00:01:31: And welcome to The Effective Studs Station podcast.

00:01:34: My name is Alun Bedding.

00:01:35: I'm your host for Today And in these episodes, I explore things that can help statisticians to become more effective.

00:01:43: But today on Welcoming Back Emma May and we're going to discuss all the things coaching & mentoring... ...and how they both can help statisticsians!

00:01:52: Before i go any further, Emma believe you've got a story.

00:01:55: just share with your audience.

00:01:57: My story is not work related but hopefully it helps us open up conversation about Mentoring and Coaching.

00:02:03: My background is that I come from a family who well and truly believed we could not sing.

00:02:09: It would have been well known in our family culture, that we weren't singers And this was how i'd grown up.

00:02:15: it's true belief that I held deep within me.

00:02:19: Yet as young adult I felt the pull to join a choir.

00:02:25: yet there were something inside of my mind That said This wasn't for Me enlisted the help of my children's godmother.

00:02:32: She was a music therapist and she was able to coach or mentor me through joining that choir, she coached me through understanding what it was that was holding with me back and these beliefs I had.

00:02:48: but she also mentored me because she had the musical knowledge in this skill to teach me what i needed understanding of coaching and mentoring, how the two possibly are similar or different overlap because she offered me kind of both those things in a role that she gave me.

00:03:11: And that led me to think more about how we help each other within their beliefs.

00:03:15: We've got that.

00:03:16: hold us back on practical ways so people can move forward when they're facing a challenge.

00:03:22: I think it's an interesting story.

00:03:24: one thing is It's not coaching or mentoring people, it is coaching and mentoring because I believe you need both.

00:03:34: A little back of my career in the farm series clenetry And i've had both coaches and mentors throughout My career and they're Both been really useful at particular times In my career and even now.

00:03:47: Now i'm a fully fledged coach but still have coaching.

00:03:50: i still Have a mentor so there's nothing different about my career.

00:03:55: now as to what?

00:03:57: but I wonder, you know the listeners are going to be listening going.

00:04:01: so what is mentoring and what is coaching?

00:04:04: And i wonder if you want to give a stab at both then maybe I can do the same.

00:04:09: Yes!

00:04:11: You're point about them both being available.

00:04:13: it's true because I think I've definitely picked up coaching styles which influence my mentoring...and I'm sure The Overlap is the other round as well.

00:04:23: Well, I have this framework for mentoring.

00:04:25: It's not a hard-and fast framework but it gives the mentoring conversations a bit of structure and maybe helps also highlight where differences may be.

00:04:34: so i would start my conversation typically with the mentee coming to call announcing what their challenges are that they're facing.

00:04:42: in particular things want talk about sessions its five Cs.

00:04:46: first one is the challenge people face.

00:04:49: bring those driving agenda perhaps open up a conversation of what are the choices you've got when your facing this challenge?

00:04:58: So that would be your second C. And then, What Are The Consequences If You Take One Or Other Of These Choices?

00:05:05: and it's only after those steps of the conversation That Would I Start To Become A Mental By Offering Perhaps Some Creative Solutions.

00:05:17: And that's, I think where the conversation would start to differ from a coaching relationship.

00:05:20: Where actually i would say have you tried this or You might want to explore That?

00:05:26: and then we would go back to the mentee drive in the conclusions Saying i'm going to try x, ylz these are my next steps?

00:05:33: I want you To hold me accountable too.

00:05:36: Whatever We're gonna do between The Next Two Sessions We differ in how we help people.

00:05:49: I'm not gonna say it's completely different because coaching to me, same as mentoring really is a partnership.

00:05:56: so it's a partnership.

00:05:57: but coaching is looking at creating those shifts and thinking.

00:06:00: It's not giving advice or anything like that.

00:06:03: its more helping the...I don't know whether they were coachee or client But having them thinker To thing more for themselves And come up with their own solutions.

00:06:13: What you're doing as a coach Is holding this space that allows that to happen.

00:06:18: You're allowing it to happen because one of the things we have an assumption in coaching is your creative resourceful and whole, Kimsey House et al mentioned that in Co-Active Coaching And its a whole aspect.

00:06:30: if you feel our thinkers within themselves To create their own solutions We just give them space for doing so.

00:06:39: It's interesting.

00:06:39: people can self coach or sometimes they think they are mental by the way And that feeling of self-coaching is not there because you also need somebody to challenge you.

00:06:52: So coaching's not comfortable and mentoring should not be comfortable either, it's a challenging space with lots of support in there.

00:07:01: The purpose I think are both the modalities is push someone forward.

00:07:05: like said before they can work in tandem.

00:07:08: Incidentally if i've ever shared this story do know where the word mental comes from?

00:07:14: Oh no, that would be interesting to know.

00:07:16: We'll

00:07:16: go back to John Wittenwall's book Coaching for Performance and in it he explains where mentoring comes from.

00:07:23: It comes from Greek mythology And when Odysseus went off to fight the Trojan Wars He left his house and son with his friend Mentor... ...and used a phrase he said to Mentor When he left Tell him or you know

00:07:38: That's brilliant.

00:07:39: Yes, that was great because what you're doing I think in mentoring is not saying You need to do this?

00:07:48: You actually just sharing What you know as well.

00:07:51: an interesting enough and the ICF International Coaching Federation In their conferences now they have sharing knowledge but it's sharing knowledge without attachment.

00:08:00: So once we share if The client or the thinker doesn't want It then Just dismiss it.

00:08:06: i agree offer ideas, and offer things that have worked in different situations.

00:08:12: And just boredom is someone's thinking about potential solutions.

00:08:15: but it's really on the listener to say actually that's something I'm going to explore... ...and not on The Coach or The Mentor.. ..to push a particular agenda or an idea!

00:08:32: And you should keep them safe.

00:08:34: As they grow into teenagers and young adults, all he can do is influence and offer the options of support to make good decisions.

00:08:41: I think coaching or mentoring are like that.

00:08:44: You offer potential solutions on a responsible adult To take them away as they choose fit.

00:08:50: That's where we could behave without falling in for advisement to trap.

00:08:55: We're offering solutions not dictating a particular way forward.

00:09:00: And listeners, if you want to know a bit more about your advice monster I would recommend googling Michael Bunga-Stania Advice Monster and there's a fantastic video which shows that everybody has an advice monster.

00:09:15: To the point where somebody will say i want your fantastic advice then you'll be jumping in there to give it.

00:09:21: but what is really important when we need to pause before try to give advice because often the advice is not what's needed in a moment.

00:09:31: I think we all carry our own baggage, whether it was as a coach or a mentor... ...or whether its'a person attending a session and we all come with our own experiences.. ..and our own thoughts about whats best practice!

00:09:42: I wonder if you can go back to that point when you made a moment ago Alan?

00:09:45: About people thinking they could self-coach or self-mental.

00:09:48: Because i think What That Actually Is.

00:09:51: It's Reflective Practice When you sit with your own thoughts on what's happened, perhaps look back in the week.

00:09:59: What happens?

00:09:59: well at a meeting or when did I speak and wish that hadn't?

00:10:02: Or how does something play out?

00:10:05: That reflective practice is just about looking to yourself and see if it can grow or learn from this.

00:10:11: And i think thats a valuable thing but its different than involving another person.

00:10:17: You are absolutely right!

00:10:18: I use self-reflective practice after all of my coaching sessions not to reflect on the topic or anything like that, but how did I show up?

00:10:27: And i often watch recordings of my coaching.

00:10:30: To pick out what... How Did I Show Up in The Room?

00:10:32: What Could I Do Better and What could I do More Of?

00:10:36: Just to improve myself as a coach!

00:10:40: That reflective practice is really important.

00:10:42: I think when we're talking about having another person at the room it's one of the advantages are both mentoring & coaching these identifying blind spots And by their very nature, you can't do that on your own.

00:10:55: Because how can you identify your blind spots which are things that are unknown to you?

00:10:59: So I think there is almost like a confirmation bias that comes if we try and self-coach.

00:11:06: Yeah!

00:11:07: There's a lovely analogy that i've had recently.

00:11:10: it's not very easy to read the label of the jar when you're inside the jar.

00:11:15: So as an individual person, if you're sitting inside your own jar.

00:11:19: Your own world... ...your view is only looking out through the jar.

00:11:24: so any label on the outside of the jar You can't see from where are and that's why when doing that reflective practice or self-reflection.

00:11:32: But If bring in a coach or mentor who comes form the outside They have a very different perspective on what you're doing inside it, and they can reveal things to through those sessions or through the discussions that he would never be able to see because you can't clearly see the outside.

00:11:51: And I love that imagery!

00:11:53: That metaphor of being in the jar... The perspective?

00:11:56: Because if you look through glass You get a different perspective than if your looking outside from the label From the outside.

00:12:04: So yeah thats'a great metaphor.

00:12:07: I wanted to move on a little bit because this is the effective statistician podcast and The listeners now may understand the difference between mentoring and coaching.

00:12:18: What's in it for them?

00:12:20: Well, In a single word growth... ...the mentoring i do focuses on people's professional development.

00:12:26: So we're thinking particularly about leadership competences things like communication listening Influencing negotiating A lot of the thing that we don't learn as statisticians that you learn by applying.

00:12:41: You understand a concept, but then you have to go away and do it?

00:12:43: Do we have to practice

00:12:44: it?".

00:12:44: And by practicing it...you may face challenges, you may fail or you have an interaction with another person ...with one person you might have some success.

00:12:54: however be made to find out!

00:12:55: But you may do the same thing with other people....and actually the communication there of how you influence and negotiate comes across completely different and fails becoming a better communicator, best leader more effective as a statistician with all these other skills that are not analytical which you learn through trial and error.

00:13:16: And growing.

00:13:17: so it's the mechanism for growth I think to become much more effective statistician than if you just concentrate on your analytical work.

00:13:25: in becoming fantastic programmer or analyst what do

00:13:32: You shouldn't be good on your technical skills, because they absolutely should be there.

00:13:38: Absolutely!

00:13:38: They're the bedrock of it all yeah

00:13:40: But what we are saying is... There's another side which you also need to develop The idea of mentoring around specific topics Around communication and sharing your own thoughts And best practices that you've come across.

00:13:54: I think where a coach can then help Is letting that thinker explore.

00:13:58: Let us take the communication aspect.

00:14:01: Let them explore, first of all what does communication mean to them?

00:14:05: What is good communication look like for them?

00:14:07: and if they were effective in their communication.

00:14:10: What would that bring them?

00:14:11: so it's digging into really the deeper stuff That's going on within a person.

00:14:18: one Of the things I find with coaching Is once you get people outside Their heads And Into Their bodies If They Become A Good Communicator Whats That Doing For Your Body?

00:14:27: Is It Releasing Some Tension?

00:14:29: You should ask that, but they may go.

00:14:31: well I feel less tense.

00:14:32: I feel more confident and if i fail can then bounce back up.

00:14:36: And there's so much more than just thinking in the head about techniques.

00:14:40: But techniques are important and tips have been born.

00:14:43: So I think That's where both can work quite nicely together.

00:14:48: My acronym for Failure...I'm not going to claim that I invented this.

00:14:52: I'd take it from somebody else that failure is first attempt at learning.

00:14:56: Absolutely

00:14:57: They'd say, I failed.

00:14:58: And I'm like well reframe fail as first attempt in learning and it really then brings somebody out of

00:15:05: themselves.".

00:15:07: And i just want to go back.

00:15:07: you use the word confidence there on your description and that is a hundred percent something that's really key to the mentoring kind of journey as well.

00:15:17: It often I find people have the knowledge they had their skills but its all about confident in applying.

00:15:24: I see time and again people telling me they know what they want to do, but there's something holding them back.

00:15:32: And just building that confidence and building that resilience.

00:15:35: so if you try it doesn't quite work... It is okay!

00:15:39: Being vulnerable is OK.

00:15:42: Most of the people will be very humble and encouraging If they can see your trying to grow and develop.

00:15:50: So confidence often comes up In different shapes and forms, depending on the personality but I think that is behind a lot of things.

00:15:58: It's just been confident to try things knowing you might fail for first time.

00:16:03: But thats'a step To growing & developing And becoming the person you wanna be.

00:16:08: You mentioned that growing there as well.

00:16:10: Our job both as mentors and coaches Is help people grow.

00:16:15: The only way they can grow is push them outside their comfort zone.

00:16:19: One coach said They said, not your friend.

00:16:24: I'm your coach or on you're mentor?

00:16:26: Or Not Your Friend?

00:16:27: because as we know friends will tell us sometimes what we need to hear rather than What We Need To Know.

00:16:32: but a Coach and Mentor will actually identify those blind spots almost like focus And through that we develop.

00:16:40: and Blakey in day John Blakey my own coach at the moment they've got A Support Challenge Matrix In Their Book Challenging Coaching and The High Support High Challenge Matrix.

00:16:51: it's called the loving boot, which obviously means in loving but kicking you on and you to develop.

00:16:57: Yeah!

00:16:58: And I think that brings for me an important aspect of coaching and mentoring is that its independent... ...of your line manager or people who pay their salary.

00:17:08: do annual review because actually what you're doing in coaching & mentoring needs to be independent.

00:17:17: It might take you different directions And you probably don't want to risk your bonus or your appraisal.

00:17:25: To talk about the things that are difficult and challenging because, You present a different base although you're authentic at work it's a vulnerability that you can expose to a mentor in coach.

00:17:34: That may not always be possible or wise to expose In kind of hierarchy within the workplace.

00:17:42: Yeah I agree with that.

00:17:43: An independent coach or mental shouldn't Be there as substitute for their a line manager or their leader.

00:17:51: It's providing something that is extra to the line management, and you're absolutely right in if they engage with somebody independent.

00:18:02: there are no Ss because the line managers should still be coaching but also have got that job as a leader And it has too much of relationship There The International Coaching Federation.

00:18:19: when they ask for you to put your hours down of coaching, They specifically say this is not about coaching Your direct reports.

00:18:29: So You cannot put those down For that very reason That a line manager Is more than just A coach or a mentor?

00:18:35: If they've actually got several different hats they need To play Now.

00:18:38: thats not saying they shouldn't Mentor and Coach because they should.

00:18:43: But having somebody independent gives that person, the mentee in your world.

00:18:48: That give them an opportunity to think deeply about a topic.

00:18:52: If somebody comes from a mentor at a sixty minute or even a thirty-minute Mentor session Or coaching sessions they have thirty minutes of or sixty minutes Of dedicated time work on a topic but then I'm gonna get it from their line manager.

00:19:06: one other things i really love About working independently Because when I was a line manager, you do have the pull of what business needs from its team.

00:19:18: You see people who are really pushing in their direction for personal growth or career development and somebody wants to move from being a statistician into a statistical programmer like that.

00:19:28: but actually it requires them stay there until the rest of this structure allows that support.

00:19:35: And having to say you can't do it yet, but how do we build these steps?

00:19:40: To allow them to happen when they're free from those structures... You see much more clearly what might be different opportunities and ways of tackling a challenge for someone who hasn't got their business goals pulling in a different direction as well.

00:19:53: It means there's lot more than you could do as a mentor or coach.

00:19:57: You push people into different directions in both sets is really letting the thinker or the mentee actually drive the agenda.

00:20:08: Because if you're independent of a company and they come to me, say well I want to get a promotion within my company there's not an awful lot that can do.

00:20:16: so be their to promote them.

00:20:18: They have go seek stuff out themselves So they set the agender whereas If your are within the company There might something you know Within there That Might Be A Conflict Of Interest To Actually Dealing With That.

00:20:30: I much for now have left that you know, coached internally and now coaching externally.

00:20:35: And it's...I find is so much more rewarding.

00:20:38: coaching externally because most of the people i coach ,i don't know their company.

00:20:44: in fact im going to say all of them Because Im now been at two years outside the pharmaceutical industry .

00:20:49: I dont'know somebodies company.. I don't kno- So i can be an authentic coach.

00:20:54: ..and leave a space For The Thinker To think

00:20:57: Yeah It's a nice place to be, I feel very privileged.

00:21:00: To me in this position.

00:21:01: yeah

00:21:02: it is.

00:21:03: and i wonder you know how can we attract more statisticians to reaching out for us?

00:21:09: I think that is such a hard question to answer isn't it?

00:21:12: because part of knowing where you want your career to go well that question.

00:21:16: people get asked either an interview or at an appraisal time... Where do you wanna be in the years' time ?

00:21:22: Or where do you want to?

00:21:25: People may have clarity on, oh I want to work in this therapy to carry or be better at R. Or know about some New Bayesian stuff but where do you wanna be?

00:21:38: In your professional development?

00:21:41: that's a much harder question answer and therefore easier to ignore.

00:21:48: it is easy not invest.

00:21:52: I think having some ambition.

00:21:54: Ambition might be the wrong word because people are very ambitious, but having some ambitions in how i'm going to grow my personal development professional development side of things is harder to pick a finger on and this is one of the reasons that recently started a leadership network as communities.

00:22:11: it's free community so people can spend time each week just thinking in small steps about their professional.

00:22:20: So you don't have to have five-year goals or even one year goals.

00:22:24: You just think about this week, what's the ones thing I'm going to do this week that will help me grow in my professional development?

00:22:32: Will it help me invest in

00:22:33: myself?".

00:22:35: And perhaps this brings an awakening of actually there is value and more to be gained by investing on this side of our career development.

00:22:44: I love feeling like a community because that's what leaders really need.

00:22:49: They need a community where they can work with each other as well, and it is interesting.

00:22:55: you talked about their statisticians.

00:22:57: maybe the goal was to learn R and to learn different ways of doing things?

00:23:04: What would I do if somebody came to me for coaching on this?

00:23:08: And actually i could be still very authentic...I don't know how high level R is.

00:23:11: so there are cases when someone steps back.

00:23:16: what do you need?

00:23:17: What is it that you want to develop through art.

00:23:20: And again, coming back those deeper things... ...what would a better level of art give you and get them think little bit more about.. ..what's going to give rather than I just needed this

00:23:32: vision if you can see where your going helps the motivate when thing are hard.

00:23:38: but i totally agree has mentored.

00:23:40: people threw put in a poster together from RSS conference on some spiral analysis so talking someone through.

00:23:48: Okay, well how are you going to do your research?

00:23:50: One of the key questions... You can't put it all in a poster breaking it down into lots of different questions for the person who is creating the poster to work themselves.

00:23:59: yet It's not always communication and listening and influencing things like this but sometimes its very practical.

00:24:05: How Do I

00:24:06: Move?,

00:24:07: How Do i go from?

00:24:08: where am now with an idea actually standing in front of a poster at conference, how do I get that vision to actually become reality?

00:24:17: And what are the questions they have to answer?

00:24:18: where the compromises.

00:24:20: What am i happy to let go?

00:24:21: and one of the core things That I want to deliver and learn from this experience?

00:24:27: So yes sometimes it is more technical than others and that's just as rewarding and just as exciting!

00:24:33: I love seeing people go through that transformation From that uncertainty So moving through, becoming more confident.

00:24:41: Ideas become clearer seeing the vision becomes reality and then succeeding And be ready for another challenge afterwards.

00:24:50: I think it's really important to visualise them as well Also know why they're behind.

00:24:55: so yeah Why is that?

00:24:56: They want a presenter conference or poster.

00:25:00: What are you trying get from presenters?

00:25:02: I often also get people stand up and feel like there at moment.

00:25:06: So what does it feel like to be in front of that poster?

00:25:10: They're already experiencing, or if they are doing a presentation.

00:25:14: Imagine you get them to stand up and say okay... What is it feels right now to presenting in front this audience And really embrace that?

00:25:25: so their constantly looking forward for what its is then tackle maybe anxiety going on themselves.

00:25:33: I think the scenario planning role-playing, possible way things will play out.

00:25:39: I mean if you're going to go into a negotiation to kind of roleplay or visualize the other person might say this how would i respond?

00:25:45: How would that feel?

00:25:46: where are there responses that would bring fear in conversation and how do deal with it?

00:25:52: Or Where Would I Feel Confident Keep Pushing When Would I Know To Say Let's Pause.

00:25:59: but yeah I think roleplay is great.

00:26:01: we've done before some.

00:26:02: improv together is really valuable as well, not just visualising the success that you might have at the end when this all goes well but being able to think quickly.

00:26:12: Really listen respond to different things.

00:26:14: and again it comes up to confidence and just practising that skill of becoming confident in a negotiation or set-up scenario with people from different personalities.

00:26:25: how might they play out?

00:26:26: It seems like a silly fun thing is some great kind of resilience and ways of responding to all sorts of different challenging things that people might throw at you in real life.

00:26:40: And listeners, if you wanted to know a little bit more about improv go back and listen to my conversation with Richard Zink who's running applied improv at the PSI conference this year.

00:26:49: yeah improv is fantastic!

00:26:51: I've done a few improv courses for coaches.

00:26:55: what it teaches you?

00:26:55: his presence.

00:26:57: so Being your head thinking what's my next question?

00:27:01: What is the answer to that kind of thing.

00:27:03: We're in a moment and you'll be present with that person, You are listening deeply too them because you listen deeply not give yourself fantastic response but really work within partnership.

00:27:14: I think improv both coaching and mentoring it important for leaders Because they will be in situations where They want to be listening deeply, too.

00:27:27: A conversation and they don't just wanna be thinking inside their own heads or watch.

00:27:30: my next fantastic question or how am I gonna look good in front of this audience?

00:27:35: And i think that's where improv is great because you let go your clever as we would say our improv classes.

00:27:41: You let go any sort of...I wanna impress people who are wanna be funny.

00:27:45: Just be there and do it.

00:27:47: That vulnerability isn't about being present at the moment.

00:27:51: not working on your thoughts.

00:27:54: how you're going to respond is such an important idea.

00:27:56: And the other idea that comes to mind when we were saying about really being present, it's also fun might be the wrong word but being able to have a connection with people who are actually quite relaxed and calm... It's building trust isn't it?

00:28:11: Having some more depth into relationship where people can work together, trust eachother, be vulnerable.

00:28:18: That's all very important!

00:28:20: These skills don't necessarily learn at university, we may see some of it in passing.

00:28:26: I'm thinking now my son's A-level teacher.

00:28:30: he's created a great rapport with his students.

00:28:33: i mean they have this ongoing joke about how big is water bottle is and it's just something that's been created there.

00:28:39: when he's a psychology teacher so he knows these things... He has created a rapport on the level trust with the young people that allows them to be vulnerable and then allows him to achieve because they can ask questions.

00:28:51: They can grow in his presence, and they feel safe with each other... And it's lovely to see that!

00:28:57: That is what emerging leaders and established leaders also need to develop.

00:29:02: Hopefully this is something that comes from mentoring or coaching not for textbook.

00:29:08: With a mentoring-coaching relationship they can explore what sorts of things they want to do, so develop that trust.

00:29:14: and you mentioned trust specifically.

00:29:16: And a lot people think how did I develop trust?

00:29:21: You know i've talked about trust on this podcast.

00:29:24: There's one habit that often talk about being kind.

00:29:28: Being kind doesn't mean be nice.

00:29:30: it means again truly listening to the person really developing friendship or relationship with that person And that's really important.

00:29:41: and trust within a relationship or coaching, or mentoring relationships is really important.

00:29:47: We cannot be an authentic coach if we're not trusted.

00:29:51: again one of the competencies for the International Coaching Federation is cultivating trust so it needs to be really important.

00:29:58: they have their trust.

00:30:01: Yeah its very important but we maintain our trust as well.

00:30:05: Maintain things like confidentiality Again, both important in a mentoring and coaching relationship because if we're not confident how can the people who work with trust us?

00:30:15: They can't.

00:30:16: So yeah I think that's really important.

00:30:18: this has been a fantastic concert as always And so coming towards the end of them hoping to listen as well Really be taking stuff away from this.

00:30:26: How come people engage with?

00:30:28: you mentioned the leadership community network or one again.

00:30:31: when had it people engaged?

00:30:33: without leadership community

00:30:36: You can send me a message.

00:30:38: I can send you a link to join the WhatsApp group, The whole premise is that each week people will set their own between one and three goals That you want to achieve that week?

00:30:48: And then you go about your business.

00:30:49: It's not going add too workload But any or no more day-to-day activities.

00:30:53: do you apply what you've said we're gonna Do whether there being more attentive and present in a meeting Or building some trust with somebody whatever it might be for that week.

00:31:04: Possibly we'll have a touch base in the middle of the week, but then on a Friday one has an opportunity to reflect and say yeah I did this or that.

00:31:11: Or... This was challenging in this way And then next week will go again!

00:31:15: It's simply that very small compounding effort That would bring results over time.

00:31:22: So join the WhatsApp group if you'd like to be part of it.

00:31:24: Then

00:31:25: its interesting.

00:31:26: You mention about The goals and putting them out there and The evidence that i have is If you share your goals there's more of an accountability.

00:31:36: So you're more likely to actually achieve your goals if you start sharing them, whereas when we keep them for yourself There is less accountability.

00:31:46: so again coming back To what were talking about earlier When people are talking About self coaching or self mentoring You need that accountability!

00:31:57: And the community Is also there to offer support each other.

00:32:02: So actually you see other people going for a journey and, You know your not alone.

00:32:06: And there's that feeling we're all in this together.

00:32:09: We can help eachother to progress and grow.

00:32:12: Yeah It sounds so useful Listeners.

00:32:15: I'd encourage you To reach out where my email address will be In the show notes Reach out and join what's up community Because it really sounds like A positive step.

00:32:25: One of things we didn't talk about Is how long coaching and mentoring engagements last.

00:32:30: My own experience is coaching a short-term engagement.

00:32:35: And what I mean by short term, it can be as little as just one session so that one session of coaching could sometimes beat all people need.

00:32:44: and thats my experience.

00:32:45: btw.

00:32:46: i've had coaching sessions with only one person but just one coaching session its been transformational.

00:32:51: whereas mentoring to me is long term more than longer building relationship.

00:32:58: By default, I would offer somebody a package of six months.

00:33:01: Would be what i'd suggest.

00:33:03: that would give most people enough time to really dig into probably a range of things they want to tackle and also first build the relationship where that can develop.

00:33:13: but I would just like to second the idea that a single coaching session could be very effective .I remember sitting with you at PSI conference last year myself ,and that single session was revolutionary for me.

00:33:24: so yes one can be enough sometimes

00:33:27: Absolutely, and I'm the same.

00:33:29: My default is a six-monthly package with as many coaching sessions of people want in that sixth package but sometimes it can be just a single session.

00:33:39: that really transforms people And i always offer every person who wants to come to have coaching me let's do a free session first In this section will coach them.

00:33:50: It won't be regular meeting where they'll tell how good am I'll actually coach them, so at least then they get a sense of how good a coach are.

00:33:57: Yeah that's the great way to start isn't it?

00:33:59: To really spend time together not just doing a kind-of sales pitch but seeing how is for real.

00:34:05: Emma again this has been a great conversation.

00:34:08: one other things i'm hoping i can put this in show notes Is you and I have produced A Flyer For Understanding Coaching and Mentoring And im gonna include That In The Show Notes or link to that in the show notes So Then People Can Get Our QR Codes To What Meetings.

00:34:22: That also gives a reflection of what we talked about today.

00:34:26: So any final words from you?

00:34:29: I hope that the listener thinks now, actually mentoring or coaching is really exciting opportunity and something worth investing in if you want to see your career develop faster than it might be just left around devices.

00:34:44: yeah this real exciting place to be

00:34:47: so listener i would actively encourage.

00:34:52: I still see both as really important and not nice to house.

00:34:56: It's an essential part of who you are, how you develop.

00:34:59: so thank-you for that!

00:35:01: So go well listeners and i hope we'll be doing some more recordings in the future... ...and tune into them!

00:35:09: Thank You very much!

00:35:25: Reach your potential, lead bright science

00:35:27: and serve patients.

00:35:28: Just be an effective statistician!